Subject: Militia defector names top generals involved

Radio Nederland Gema Warta, 6 October 1999

BAIS chief, Tyasno Sudarto named for his involvement in actions by pro autonomy militias.

The chief of the Indonesian armed forces' intelligence agency, BAIS (formerly called BIA), Lt General Tyasno Sudarto took part in preparatory meetings for pro-autonomy militia operations from March this year. This is the first time the name of Tyasno, former commander of the Diponegoro Regional Command (Central Java) and a close asssociate of General Wiranto, has been mentioned in connection with the violent actions in East Timor. Tyasno as also once BAIS protocol directorate chief, whose duty it was to protect President Suharto during his trips abroad.

The UN Commission of Inquiry will soon be going to East Timor to begin investigating human rights violations since January this year. Until now names mentioned in New York, Geneva, Darwin, Dili and Jakarta have included former BAIS chief Major-General Zacky Anwar, Major General Gleny Kauripan, Udayana Regional commander, Major General Adam Damiri, former Jakarta military commander Major-General Syafrie Syamsuddin and, former military commander in East Timor, Colonel Tono Suratman.

According to Tomas Goncalves, the man chosen to head the militia in Ermera, Tyasno also attended meetings with militia leaders. Tomas Gonzalves was formerly bupati of Ermera. He is the son of the second governor of East Timor, Guilherme Maria Gonzalves who defected to Portugal in the 1990s. Tomas defected last April and is now staying in Macao. Here is what he had to say in an interview with Radio Nederland:

Tomas Gonzalves (TG): I was also nominated to become the bupati (district chief) of Ermera.

RN: Then, did you defect?

TG: Yes, I refuse (to do things) because the things I saw were too brutal and cruel. That's why I refused.

RN: Was that in April after the Liquica incident?

TG: Yes, on 5 April I was in Dili and on the 6 April I left Dili for Jakarta.

RN: How did it happen that you were appointed to command the militias?

TG: As you know, in 1975, I was commander of a joint command, having been a partisan. Then I was appointed as bupati until 1988.

RN: Bupati of which region?

TG: Of Ermera.

RN: What were your duties as head of the militias?

TG: We had to wage as much resistance as possible to anyone who was pro-independence. This all began back in February this year.

RN: Who was in charge? Which generals were involved?

TG: One of the generals was Major-/General ZAcky Anwar, as well as the Head of BIA himself (BIA is now called BAIS).

RN: Who was the head of BIA? WAs his name Tyanso Sudarto.

TG: Yes that's right, Tyasno. And there was also Gleny.

RN: Gleny Kaupiran?

TG: Yes.

RD: What was his position?

TG: I dont know for sure, but these are the ones who I knew.

RN: Did you ever attend meetings at which they were present?

TG: Yes, often.

RN: What did they say? What was the aim of the operations? Did you have to murder people? What were your orders?

RG: We pro-autonomy people had to defend the motherland. It was said that East Timor was integrated into Indonesia.

RN: In what way did you have to defend integration?

TG: We had to take up arms, if we were defeated.

RN: Who were the enemy, and what did you have to do to them?

TG: The enemy were the leaders of CNRT, as well as their sympathisers, down to their grandchildren.

RN: What did you have to do to them?

TG: We had to kill them.

RN: Did they actually say that? Did you hear them say that or read about in the programme?

TG: Yes I heard in and re.... it as well. I know for certain that this is what they said.

RN: Did people like Major-General Adam Damiri or Zacky Anwar, or Tyasno Sudarto say this? That those people had to be killed?

TG: Well, not directly but via Colonel Tono Suratman and the SGI (Kopassus intelligence agency) commander.

RN: Who was the SGI commander at the time?

TG: Colonel Nugroho. But later he was replaced by .... There was another replacement as well who is probably still in Dili... Yayat Sudradjat.

RN: Is he a colonel?

TG: At the time he was still a lieutenant colonel.

RN: How often did you hear about this programme to finish off the leaders of the CNRT? Since when?

TG: Since March

TAPOL, the Indonesia Human Rights Campaign 111 Northwood Road, Thornton Heath, Surrey CR7 8HW, UK Phone: 0181 771-2904 Fax: 0181 653-0322 email: Internet: Campaigning to expose human rights violations in Indonesia, East Timor, West Papua and Aceh

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