| Subject: Expresso: "Support
for the militias will cease" Source:
Expresso Date: 23.10.99 Dateline: Jakarta Byline: Tony Jenkins Original Language:
Portuguese Scope: Abridged Headline: "Support for the militias will cease"
[…] Abdurrahman Wahid, better known in his own country
as Gus Dur, spoke to the Expresso in the lobby of the Hotel Mandarin at the start of the
Popular Consultative Assembly (MPR), the body that has just elected him President of
Indonesia.
Expresso (Exp.): If you were elected President, would you
respect East Timor’s independence?
GD: I have said on many occasions that we will respect the
plebiscite and obey international law.
Exp.: Would you immediately establish diplomatic relations
with Dili?
GD: We are going to establish diplomatic relations, but
only at chargé d’affaires level, because we have to maintain Indonesia’s
sovereignty and self-esteem.
Exp.: Why should treating Timor Loro Sae as an equal affect
your sovereignty and self-esteem?
GD: I am sure you understand what I mean. East Timor was a
very difficult and emotional problem for many Indonesians. It is better not to discuss
certain matters.
Exp.: Are the military the problem? Will you be able to
convince them to stop supporting the militias in West Timor, and to allow Timor Loro Sae
to live in peace?
GD: Yes, the military are a problem. If necessary, we shall
make changes in posts in the TNI (Armed Forces) in order to stop the support for the
militias. But we have to be fair to the Armed Forces. Not all of what you in the
international media say about the TNI is true. For example, you reported that the militias
had killed Xanana Gusmao’s father and brother, but now we know that it was not true.
Much of what happened in East Timor was the result of a campaign by the integrationists,
not by the military.
Many members of the TNI are respectable people. They
consider themselves the cornerstone of the building of our country.
Exp.: It appears that the Army is training Timorese
militias to embark on guerrilla warfare.
GD: I can assure you that I shall take that matter in hand.
It will not happen. I shall undertake responsibility for that personally, and it is going
to stop.
Exp.: But the Army has already shown that it is not
prepared to give up its political power and the role it plays in Indonesian civil society.
GD: We have to maintain the "Double Function" of
the Armed Forces for another five years, until the next elections. The "Double
function" is related to the personal income levels of military personnel. First, we
have to solve that problem. But they are not likely to take part in the next elections, in
2004.
Exp.: Do you think that the Army is going to accept your
authority?
GD: The military accept me as President. I have already
told the TNI that we ought to separate the Ministry of Defence from the Cabinet of the
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The Minister must be a civilian. Furthermore, we
have to alternate all the branches of the Armed Forces – Army, Navy and Air Force
– so that no particular one is dominant. The Armed Forces are our adversary, not our
enemy. We have to change their hearts.
Exp.: What do you think about the investigation into
atrocities committed in East Timor? Do you accept the international commission, or will
you be insisting on a national investigation process, like President Habibie? GD: I do not
like these national-level investigations. They cannot guarantee an impartial
investigation. I do not believe that the national (human rights) commission will be able
to carry out such a task. I am a member of that commission and I know that it will not
implement justice. Only an international commission can do justice in this case.
Exp.: Was General Wiranto responsible for what happened in
East Timor? What would happen if the international commission were to formally accuse him
of war crimes?
GD: No comment.
Exp.: Pressure from separatists exists in other parts of
Indonesia, such as Aceh. How are you going to deal with the problem?
GD: I want to decentralise power – a lot of power
– to the regions. I supported the holding of a referendum in Aceh. But we cannot use
the world "federation". It is a word with negative connotations in Indonesia
because of its association with the Dutch colonial past. They used the federation as a
means of dividing and dominating the Indonesian people.
Exp.: Corruption is extremely destabilising. How will you
deal with it?
GD: Suharto ought to be investigated and tried by a court.
That would serve as an example. Once he is sentenced, we could then negotiate with him in
order to recuperate the country’s money. That way, we would not be so dependent on
aid from the international community. It would also contribute to restoring our national
pride.
Exp.: The most powerful political force in Indonesia is
that of the students on the streets. Will you be able to control them?
GD: There is no student power. What we have are small
groups of students, and the men who are behind them are all hooligans. That is why there
are hooligans among them. I do not like violence. I am a follower of Mahatma Gandhi. I
told the students that we can exert pressure without resorting to violence, and that we
can move towards democracy without violence; that way, God will allow it.
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